How you are cheated at Petrol Pump and lose money on every visit ?

Today I am going to explain a trick employed by Petrol Pump guys which might be costing you a lot of money on a per year basis. You might be loosing a couple of thousands each year because of this scam which probably goes on at each petrol pump.

Petrol Pump Scam in India

How Fraud at Petrol Pump Works!

When you ask them to fill petrol for Rs 1,000 , the attendant fills up the oil only for Rs 200 . When you ask him why he didnt fill up for Rs 1,000 . He will give a innocent smile and say that he heard Rs 200 and he will fill remaining Rs 800 , he resets the meter and fills up another Rs 800 petrol and you pay Rs 1,000 (200+800).

Whats the scam here ? The problem is that he never resets the meter to 0 , he continues from the Rs 200 point itself and go till Rs 800 , so in reality you only get the petrol worth Rs 800, but pay Rs 1,000 . The trick here is that when he says that he is resetting the meter to 0 and moves towards it, at that some moment, another team mate of attendant will disturb you with some question like – “Sir, Cash or Card?” , or “Sir, PUC karana hai kya?” , Or “Sir can you fill up this coupon ?” .

As a human tendency – you will have to look at him or hear him and in those 3-4 seconds , the main attendent will start the meter again and by the time you look at the meter, its somewhere near 300-400 , and you feel that the meter has restarted starting from 0 , but actually it was just continued from 200 point only. So you loose Rs 200 here.

how petrol pump fraud works in India

I would like to show you some of the real life experiences

Experience 1

Today I went on a 150Km trip to Kanchipuram. Because it was a long trip I decided to check the mileage of my car, so did not fill petrol at a regular pump and waited for the fuel indicator to sync with a marking. I reset the trip meter and filled petrol at the next petrol pump which was an Indian Oil pump in Pallavaram on the left while going towards Tambaram. I told the cashier that I wanted petrol for Rs.500 and took out the money from my purse and handed it to the cashier. When I looked at the guy at the pump, he told me that he had filled the petrol and wanted me to verify.

The meter showed Rs.200, so I told the guy that I asked for Rs.500, but I sensed something wrong. I was sure when he filled the next 300 from the time it took for it that he had not filled anything to start with as he showed me the meter too soon. I wasn’t sure about what to do in that position and left. It was obvious when I checked the mileage that the guy had cheated. I could go for a distance of only 52Kms with that petrol and the mileage for Rs.500 of petrol with that distance is 7.5Kmpl. Whereas if I take it as Rs.300, the mileage is 12.5Kmpl which is within the expected range. Moreover I filled for another Rs.500 at Kancheepuram and the mileage I got is 12.7Kmpl and the fuel indicator is still above the mark. I have been driving since 2001 and this is the first time something like this has happened to me. (Source)

Experience 2

At the first petrol dispensing counter (as you enter the petrol pump), the attendants frequently cheat customers. You ask them to fill, say, Rs.100 worth of petrol. However clearly you say it, one employee will fill only Rs.50 worth of petrol in just about 2 seconds when another employee tries to distract you. Within a blink of an eye, the counter goes from Rs. 0 to Rs.50. When you tell him that you’d asked for Rs.100 worth of petrol, he will apologize saying he didn’t hear it properly, and fill the remaining Rs.50 worth. The second Rs.50 petrol will take about 5-10 seconds to fill. You finally end up paying Rs.100 and getting petrol worth far less than that.

This has happened a few times with me and some friends. The cheating procedure has always been the same although the amounts differ. I know for sure that I’ve been cheated because my bike gives me a mileage of about 50km/litre normally, but when these incidents happen, I get far less mileage than this.. (Source)

How to Complain for this Petrol Pump Fraud?

IF you feel you are cheated, you can complain about this fraud to the petrol pump company like HPCL, BPCL or IOC. You have customer care numbers of these companies and also web portals for registering complaints online explaining them the exact issue (it can be various issues).

HPCL Web Portal – http://retailcms.hpcl.co.in/retailcms/registeruserissue.aspx
HPCL Customer Care Phone – 155233 / 1800 2333 555

BPCL Web Portal – http://ebiz.bpc.co.in/ccs/complaintCreation.faces?form1:sbu=1000
BPCL Customer Care Phone – 155233/ 1800222725

IOC Web Portal/Customer Care – https://www.iocl.com/TollFreeCellNumber.aspx

Some other things you can do other than complaining

  • Also ask for complaint book from the attendant, and put the written complaint in that complaint book. Most of the times they will make an excuse that the complaint book is locked in the room or something like that, tell them you are calling the company customer care and will complain about them
  • Make sure you ask them to meet the outlet manager, ask for their phone numbers if they are not present and try to talk to them, make the scene
  • Make the scene, scream at them and be tough if you are very sure you are duped and lost the money. In front of other customers they are bound to correct their mistake
  • Open you fuel lid, only when the meter is reset to 0 .
  • Get out of your CAR and stand next to the person putting fuel, makes it tougher for them to cheat you

Conclusion

This is happening all over the country of various petrol pump outlets and this can easily be a scam worth thousands of crores rupees, provided there are thousands of petrol pumps in country and millions fill up petrol everyday. The best measure to fight against this is to spread this information to more and more people you know and also be attentive and alert while you are filling up petrol or diesel in your vehicle.

Have you ever come across this fraud has it happened with you ?

6th Batch of Online Investor Bootcamp starts from 7th April – Limited Members

A few months back we started something called “Investor’s bootcamp”- which is an online tribe of action oriented investors. Till now more than 250+ people have participated in our investor bootcamp and the results have been amazing so far (People have produced unprecedented results in their financial life). We want every investor on our blog to pass through bootcamp experience at least once in their life time.

Let’s look at why we created Investor Boot camp?

We created boot camp so that investors can work on their financial life in a very simple, fun and effective way. This bootcamp happens over facebook group (closed), and is very flexible to attend and participate. One can participate and take part as per their time and convenience. The intention of boot camp is ACTION. Bootcamp is created to put knowledge into practice; it is created to gain valuable insights in different areas of financial life. It’s where you get a chance to brainstorm with other investors. When you go through the process you will get CONFIDENT as an investor.

We are proud to share with you some power pack sharing from different boot camp participants. While the boot camp was on some of the sharing brought tears to our eyes and they filled our heart with a lot of fulfillment.

Experience of Bootcamp Participants

We are going to share some of the experiences here. Very soon in next few days, we are going to create Action Booklet of boot camp participants, which we will share with you all and it will inspire investor’s community

Guru Prasad

Batch #3

 

Testimonial 8

 

“You gave me a start and have put all the dots.”

Before I joined this bootcamp, I had a question – “Will I get my money’s worth?”

I thought for some time, then got an answer – Whatever happens in this bootcamp, I definitely owe Manish and Nandish the fee for the knowledge I got through jagoinvestor through all those quality articles!!!

Coming to the bootcamp, all I wanted to know was how to deal with money, how to attract more money and to understand about investing money. I should say all the boxes are ticked with satisfaction. The biggest of all is dumping(made paid up) my LIC policies which I had taken 7 years back and had paid close to 3 lacs. I lost huge money, its ok, i will pay the price for my mistake and being horribly ignorant on these issues.

Had some actions taken. I bought one term insurance, will buy one more in April. Almost got a good health cover for mom, will be get getting it next month for dad. Got to know more about financial products. Most important of all, I had been thinking a lot about money and my finance for the last month and a half. It has made quite some difference. The other day, while having a casual chat with my friend who had taken LIC money back policies, I told him to separate risk and investment separately, and these money back products does neither. I advised him to go for term plans. I could see the joy in his face which made me feel I opened his eyes, and he thanked me again and agin for sharing with him. I told him actually its not me, the 2 persons whom he is supposed to thank are namely Manish and Nandish!!!.

Regarding the books, Finished all the 3, “How to be your own financial planner in 10 steps” is the best of all. And Nandish, the line, “You earn exactly what you think you are worth” is still vibrating in me, got the book’s worth in just this one line.

I enjoyed your program. I have lots of pending work though to be completed, you gave me a start and have put all the dots. I need to spend time regularly and start connecting them by taking actions. Thank you.

→ Register for Bootcamp

 

 

Karan Kapasi

Batch #3

 

Testimonial 10

 

“I feel that in the past 6 weeks of the boot camp has made a huge impact to my financial life.”

I started reading the first book by Manish – “16 personal Finance principles every investor should know” and it inspired me a lot. I then started reading a lot of articles in the Jagoinvestor blog and continue to do so- its got so much information on different financial aspects and its through this I came to know about the Boot camp and signed up for the same.

Now coming to the boot camp, the experience has been amazing. I had the opportunity to interact with Manish and Nandish and it has been one fulfilling experience – thanks a lot Manish & Nandish. Apart from this, another good thing about this was l got to hear and learn from other members of the camp as well. I feel that in the past 6 weeks of the boot camp has made a huge impact to my financial life, it made me think and take actions of the different aspects of my financial life which I had not completed before.

I have taken many actions and some of them are pending and am working on completing them soon. The boot camp has brought in a lot of awareness and also taught us in detail about the various aspects of one’s financial life. I am still reading through the books and its been a very good experience as the language and most of the examples are simple and easy to relate to.

Overall this has been one awesome experience, thanks again Manish and Nandish for this. I would also like to thank all the members of this camp as well as I learned from some of their experiences.

When is the BEST time to join boot camp?

We would like to share one Chinese proverb

“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.”

This is the RIGHT time for you to plunge into personal finance actions. Let bootcamp be the medium for you to take important personal finance actions

The overall structure of Boot camp is amazingly simple and absolutely EFFECTIVE

Bootcamp Structure

Our Invitation to join BOOT CAMP

We strongly recommend each one of you to be a part of upcoming boot camp on 7th April. With this article we take this opportunity to extend our personal invitation to each one of you. We will be in a position to take around 35 people this time and so make sure you book your seat at earliest. The boot camp is going to be a game changer; it’s going to help you dust all your laziness and casual approach in the area of money. (So don’t miss this opportunity)

How I arranged my financial life in 4 steps – The Inside Story of my real life

Today I am sharing my real life story of how I arranged my financial life. Our financial lives over time gets messed up because we are lost in our jobs and family and everyday some new information or financial document enter our life and gets piled up. We keep stuffing documents here and there in our almira thinking – “I will keep it properly next Sunday” .

Which never comes ! 

getting organised in financial life

In my personal case, I consciously try to keep things arranged as far as possible, but just like everyone, my financial documents and various information become unorganised like every other person. So finally one day, I decided to have my own “Personal Finance Management Week” , where I decided to finally come out of my “comfort zone” and cross all my mental limits, defeat my laziness and arrange all my documents and fix various other “issues” and finally make things neat and clean in my financial life. And thats exactly what 150+ participants of our last bootcamps did in their financial life too.

But why Did I decide to arrange my financial life ?

  • For Myself – Everytime I have to find out some document or information, I really had to struggle remembering where exactly I had kept it, The piles of xerox papers, insurance papers, bank documents, property papers etc etc had got mixed with each other and it takes more than 10-15 mins, lots of frustration and that little guilt inside for creating this mess and not keeping it clean . I wanted to have a clean space of things, where if you ask me about document X or information Y – I can give it you in less than 60 second.
  • For my Family – Because I know, my family will really get confused and frustrated when they will have to deal with my financial mess. They are not as much financially aware as I am, they dont understand this “personal finance” area so much and it will scare them like anything in future when they need to deal with it. So I need to create an environment, where my family members can find out various things related to my financial life, as easily as possible. If you want a proof that family members can suffer if you dont take care of this area, then I want to share a real life case which was shared on our blog itself where, a wife was never able to claim life insurance after her husband’s death, because she had no idea where are documents and which company was it .. here is the sharing by Nishareal life experience on arranging documents
  • and Finally, because its once a year task – Truly speaking, this whole thing does not take a lot of time, all it takes is huge commitment and a small START. There is a great chance that even you have not completed this, just out of lethargy and nothing else, It takes few hours of dedicated work and huge commitment and nothing else. Once you arrange all the things, then from next year, it will be just 1 hour of additional work to update things.

4 things  I did for arranging my financial life like a SuperMan

So, here is how I started. The first thing I did was to buy 3 BIG folders and 2 small plastic pockets which can contain few documents and then I did following 4 tasks

Action #1 – Created 5 folders to hold documents and categorise them

The first big thing I did was to buy 5 folders where I arranged 5 kind of documents in each, so that if I need a particular kind of document or information, I have a separate folder for that. Those 5 folders were

arranged documents in various folders

a) Protection Related Folder – This folder contains all my documents which protect my financial life like – Life Insurance, Health Insurance, Car Insurance related papers, which includes Policy documents, Health Cards, Premium Receipts, A paper containing all the customer care numbers. I still need to add a document which explains them what to do to claim each of them. Imagine you meet an accident and are not accessible, this folder will help them like GOD , Won’t it ?

b) Property related Folder – This folder contains all my property related documents, like Loan Agreement Paper, Home Loan related document, Property Tax receipts and any other small or big document which is property related

c) Banking Related Folder – Banking is a big aspect of everyone’s financial life and I thought why not have a dedicated folder for this. So in this folder I have all my cheque books, Bank related document, Locker papers, FD receipts (if any) , any bank statements which I want to keep etc etc. If you have more than 2-3 bank accounts, it really becomes very cumbersome to manage them, so this dedicated folder comes very handy.

d) All the Bills/Receipts/Warranty Cards Folder – This is not exactly related to personal finance, but over the years, you collect so many important bills, warranty cards, receipts which you want to keep because they are needed later in future and if you cant find them, you really regret mismanaging them and not keep them properly. So in this folder I am now keeping all the bills and important warranty cards. You can also store all your old ITR acknowledgement copies in this folder.

e) Education Related and Important Documents – And finally I have dedicated a folder for all my and spouse education related document like 10th , 12th , graduation and post graduation certificates , marksheets , passing certificates etc etc. Plus , I have also chosen this same document to keep our important documents like Passport, Aadhar card, Driving License xerox, Voter Id Card etc etc, Cable related, Electricity bills etc etc.

After making these 5 folders , now if you ask me you want X , I open my almira, know which folder has it, open it and can find out the required document  80% faster compared to old situation. Now my family, knows that things are not randomly lying here and there, but somewhere neatly arranged .

How 150+ investors organised their financial documents in Bootcamp

We have just completed our Facebook Bootcamp with 150+ investors and we dedicate one full week for arrangement and cleaning up of your overall financial life. Almost all the 150+ participants had taken huge actions and with lots of commitment, they all cleaned up their financial lives. They all arranged their documents and you should see what kind of conversations happens on our facebook bootcamp. See the snapshot below

bootcamp documents arranging week

Action #2 – Created Scanned Version of all important Documents

The next important thing I did was to scan each of my very important document and keep the scanned version online accessible to me and my family. Some people might think its going extra mile and not required, but then its your choice and mindset. God Forbid, if you loose your physical documents somewhere, due to fire, robbery or any damn reason, it gets really tough sometime, especially in case of education related certificates.

There is no harm in scanning documents and keeping it with you online, especially if it takes 2-3 hours of work. All you need to do is take out time and pick which documents you want to scan and then finally scan then. Make a folder, compress it in ZIP format and mail it to yourself on your email id and someone else in your family. Keep it saved in a CD format also and keep at home or locker. It does not hurt at all, other than it takes fews hours of yours, but so what, its for your own good, Its a once and for all kind of activity.

I would still make sure I will take care of my physical documents , but god forbid if something happens to them (for any damn reason), atleast I have a scanned version of it, Its a better situation then to have nothing in your hand. In my case, I have scanner at my home so it was handy for me.

Storing Scanned Files

Here are those documents which I scanned

  • Health Insurance Policy First Page (which mentions Sum Assured and Premium)
  • Life Insurance Policy first Page
  • Health Insurance Cards
  • 10th , 12th and other educational certificates marksheets

Action #3 – Created Emergency Black box Kit for my Family

The next thing I did was to create a emergency black box kit, which any one from my family can open and they will get every possible information about everything at one place. It will have all the basic + critical directions for them to follow, whom to contact in which case, where to go in which situation, how to claim for various things etc etc. Here is a snapshot of what all it can contain

  • All Important Contact Numbers like CA, Tax Consultant etc etc
  • Toll Free Phone numbers of Health Insurance, Car Insurance, Life Insurance
  • Customer Care numbers of all the banks where we have account
  • Email id of all the Insurance and Investment companies
  • All Documents numbers like – PAN number, Driving Licence Number, Passport Number
  • Process to claim life insurance, health insurance etc
  • Process to close bank accounts and claim back the money
  • Process to claim back all the mutual funds and other investments

Here is a rough idea on how it can look like

the emergency file for family

It can be roughly 6-8 pages long. You can keep the online version on your computer, email and dropbox and also take a printout and keep it at home and label it respectively like – “Open in case of emergency” . So incase something bad happens and you are not accessible or can’t help your family, your family members can look at it and their life will be more easier !

Store some important Contacts on Phone also

I extended this task and also stored some very important things on phone , which can be very handy and save you a lot of time in the times of crisis. I have my health insurance card scanned version on my phone, so that I can use it whenever required. Also I stored all the customer care numbers properly one by one with this format – “COMPANY-NAME CUST CARE” , so that in future if me or my family members have to call some customer care, we just can look at the phone search for “CUST CARE” and then choose the number.

I have seen people who try to find out the important phone numbers on the last minute, and that eats out some important time of theirs. Also in case of crisis or emergency – you really need it handy on your finger tips, This particular action might look very trivial , but in times of need, you will really feel very relaxed and happy to have it with you. More than yourself, its for your loved one’s who don’t have to struggle for this.

Action #4 – Created a Run-Away File

I dont know if this is my invention – but this came into my mind some weeks back . Every time I had to go for some important work which requires my Identity card xerox or address proof, I had to everytime arrange for it because I didnt had the xerox ready with me, so I had to carry original and then on the way, I have to xerox it. This takes up time …

Then at times, I had to return back home because I was not having my cheque book, because it was not asked to me . Then at one time, my trip to a property tax department was a waste because I didn’t bring my Index2 (house ownership proof) .. So then I thought why not create a RUN-AWAY file , which has all the things you can imagine which might be required ! for some work . So if you have to take a new phone connection, just pick the run-away file and go

run away file for emergency purpose
If you have to go to book a new property – Phew .. Just pick the run-away file and thats all .. It will have all the things ..

So it will have

  • Atleast 2 Xerox copies of PAN CARD
  • Atleast 2 xerox copies of your address proof (electricity/phone bill)
  • Passport xerox, aadhar xerox, driving licence
  • 4-5 passport size photos of yours, spouse ete (if needed somewhere)
  • 1 cheque leaf of your bank accounts (unsigned)
  • 1 pen

You place all these things in a plastic packet and that’s all, you take it where ever you go , You don’t have to arrange for things every time. From the day I have created it, my life has become very easy, all I need to do is just open my almira and pick up that folder and I move on ..

Define your own style of arrangement

What you just saw above was my personal way of arranging things. This is just a idea of what all you can do, next – you need to define what all you want to arrange, in what manner, to which level and which are more important things for you and what is not. It might happen that you might feel, that what I did was little over-doing of things, but thats fine – its your choice. You can choose to go for a lower version, but I would just say that a lot of things are just one time task and then a small pinch of yearly review, Give the benefit you will get out of it, compared to the time you put, its worth going a little deeper.

Arranging Things is 1st Step , Communicating with Family is 2nd

We feel we should communicate all the things about our financial life to our spouse, children , parents etc and they should be aware about what all is there, but imagine if you do that without arranging things . If things are messed up in your financial life, the communication from do will not be effective.

However, if you arrange things neatly like this, and then when you show these things to your family members – they will be able to consume it in a better way, they will understand things more clearly, because they are able to “see” things before their eyes. They know what to find, where to find, and how to find. If things are clean and neatly arranged like this, they will also become more serious about overall finances and they will really feel that you are responsible and think about their care in future.

You will feel amazing

Once you arrange your financial life and fix lot of other things which were pending from long time, you will really feel amazing. I want to share one of our bootcamp member experience of working on his financial life and how our bootcamp has changed his financial life overall.

This looks so small thing, but the difference it makes in your day to day life is really great ! – So are you still waiting for “next Sunday” ?

What exactly is Financial Planning – 8 things we learnt after working with 300+ clients

“Financial planning” is the NEW buzz word these days all over the internet, TV channels and newspapers. These days even bank employees are selling a lot of financial products on the name of “Financial Planning” .

Investors are literally bombarded with the word – Financial Planning from various sources like blogs, articles, advisors and every mutual fund and insurance agent, and the flow of information has created some kind of mental image in investor’s mind about – “what is financial planning?”.

what is financial planning

In a typical financial planning exercise, a financial planner goes through your financial data and then draws a written financial plan, which touches upon various area’s of your financial life like life insurance, health insurance, asset allocation, retirement, children goals etc etc.

But in this article we want to add more dimensions to what is financial planning, and want to add a whole new perspective to what is financial planning. The article’s motive is to help you to see financial planning process with new and empowering perspective.

Our view of “Financial Planning”

We feel that at Jagoinvestor – even our own view about the term called “Financial Planning” has changed over a period of time and we would like to share the same with you all today.

We have worked with close to 300+ clients till date and today we want to share our learning and insights which we have drawn from our experience in so many years. With every passing day we are evolving inside our profession and we also want our readers to grow with us.

What Investors and Financial Advisors think about “Financial Planning”

We want to know what do investors and various financial advisors connected to us on social media think about “Financial Planning” , We wanted to know from them what is their view about “What is Financial Planning?”.

So we asked them on facebook here and here. We got lots of answers and we are sharing some of them with you below. There is no wrong or right definition here, so we just collected few answers from investors and financial planners and we want to show you what they think about it.

financial planning meaning

8 insights about Financial Planning

Now We will share with you 8 insights about how to perceive financial planning in a new way. We feel a big number of investors and financial advisors have a very narrow view about “financial planning” and its potential.

We simply want you to see Financial Planning tool with fresh pair of eyes. May be it’s time to question our perception about what financial planning is all about. Here are those 8 insights below.

1. It is not about securing future, it is designing your present

A lot of investors and advisors think that financial planning is about future, in our view it is not about future. Financial Planning is an exercise that helps you to design your present as an investor. Future is an illusion and it just does not exist in reality.

You have to use financial plan as a tool to make each day/week/month and year your best financial year. A lot of investors think with the help of financial plan I am going to secure my future, but in reality it is about learning to play fully in this very moment.

Let me share an example with you – All the investors who drop a financial planning inquiry on our services page – we usually ask them why they want to go for financial planning and what financial planning means to them ? And the most common answer we here is, “I want to do financial planning, so that I can secure my long term financial goals like children goals, retirement etc.”

They think financial planning can help them to be more secured. We ask them to stop over focusing about future and look at what best they can do right now with their financial resources.

2. Financial Plan is not about “Financial Goals”, it is about Financial commitment

A lot of people think financial planning is only and only about financial goals. May be financial goal is one small part of the whole financial planning exercise, but surely its not only about financial goals.

In our view it is about strongly announcing your financial commitment and what you are going to do now on-wards in your financial life and then sticking to your commitment. We encourage all our clients to announce their monthly financial commitments. Setting financial goals is extremely easy, but sticking to your monthly financial commitments is where the rubber meets the road.

Let me share with you something about our clients, what we do with our clients – When we get on call with any investor clients of ours, they bring all their WANTS on table (difference between Needs vs Wants here) . Wants like second home, A lot of clients want to even plan for the kid who is not yet born.

Now, the moment we start the commitment conversation the goal list starts to shrink. Commitment is doing what is required to get what you want and not allowing anything to get in your way.

3. Financial planning is NOT about bringing Certainty

As human beings we are always attracted to Certainty. Most investors want to know whether they will be able to achieve their financial goals or not ? This is the core reason why they hire a financial planner! . In our view the best thing about life is that it is mysterious and uncertain.

If we pull uncertainty out of future then it is no longer the future; It is present – which is projected forward and nothing else.

We want investors to hire a financial planner not only with core focus of bringing certainty, but to building financial muscle, to face every kind of situation that life throws at you, to bring more completeness in various areas of financial life, to get an external opinion about your financial life.

We have seen this happening with many investors – No matter how much they plan, life turns out the way it turns out. Now this does not mean you should not plan, but you should develop your mind that is constantly planning in face of what happens.

Watch this video of Financial Coaching by Jagoinvestor: 

4. It is NOT about financial plan, it is about the Journey

We find so many investors and financial planners – who are totally attached to the document called “Financial Plan”. They pick small small things from the PDF document given to them and over focus on them, it might be some number , some fund name or some assumption taken.

In our view the real results are not inside of a financial plan, they are located outside of a financial plan. We ask our clients to draw key learning’s from the financial plan and then throw away the plan. Every investor is on some journey and it is important to enjoy the journey. If you are not enjoying the wealth creation journey, you will never enjoy the so called destination.

We have seen people who after reaching the age of 55 or 60 years of age, tell us that it is the financial journey that matters at the end and nothing else. When we work with investors we just do one thing, we simply ask them to enjoy the process of wealth creation. This eliminates all the worries from your head and helps you to take proactive actions in your financial life.

5. It is NOT about picking perfect financial products

In our view financial planning is not an exercise to pick right or perfect financial products. A lot of investors spend maximum time in “Which Mutual Fund is Best?” or “Which Health Insurance policy premium is lowest?” and similar points. While that’s important to some  level, but finally wealth creation is all about testing and exploring.

A lot of investors fail to create wealth because they stop testing and exploring. A good financial planner will always encourage their clients when it comes to testing and exploring new things. He/she will educate you in a way, such that you are motivated to test new things in your financial journey.

A good planner will always say “Don’t’ worry I won’t let you fail but I want you to test new things as an investor”

When we work with our clients – we ask them to test new and unknown territories. We once asked one of our client to think about creating an alternate income even though he was working in a software company. We asked him to cross his mental barriers and keep looking at opportunities.

Few months later, In one of the offices, there was a food counter in cafeteria space, which he setup and hired a worker and it was doing well , The question is not what happened later, but the main thing is that he explored some new ways of earning money.

Then there are so many investors who never ever invested in mutual funds thinking it is a risk proposition. We ask them to test this new route and we become their guide. We helped them clear their myths about equity products and once they become comfortable, they started exploring it.

6. Financial plan is not about products, calculations and returns, it is about YOU

The number one expectation an investor holds in his mind is to find a financial advisor who helps him/her to get more returns. “A Financial Plan  is not about products, returns and calculations, it is about YOU” – This line is from my book “11 principles to achieve financial freedom”.

This entire book has no numbers and calculations in it, it teaches an investor to develop right kind of mindset in the area of money. Financial planning is an opportunity to be 100% honest in the area of money so that you can work on your discipline level and can make corrections as an investor.

Let me share an small experience here. I was working with a client who told me – “I have no idea why my financial life is not good”.

I simply asked him to get the truth on table, I asked him to search inside him to get real answer. He finally agreed and owned all his mistakes and took entire responsibility of his financial situation. It was painful for our client, but things started to shift when the truth got on table.

This realization and acceptance gave him a lot of power to change things. It was all about HIM and not about situations and circumstances.

7. Financial planning is NOT about advice, it is about ACTION

The old definition says that financial planning is process where two people connect, number crunching takes place and advice is imparted on what needs to done.

Giving or taking advice is just 20% of the job done, because the rest 80% is all about taking actions. More and more investors will make the most of financial planning tool when they will take actions, because at the end only action produces results and nothing else. As an investor check, how action oriented your advisor is or how action oriented you are as an investor?

A lot of readers write to us and say – “Can you advice me on so and so issue ?” . We say – “NO , We will help you to gain insights along with giving advice so that you are empowered to take actions”

We ask our existing clients to report their weekly personal finance actions to us. This is how things start to shift in their financial world. In our facebook bootcamps, we focus on taking actions for 6 weeks and we have helped more than 250+ investors to make their financial lives awesome till now.

Look at one of the recent bootcamp sharing where, one of our participant “Sachin Gopalkar” is sharing what all actions he did while he was in bootcamp

Jagoinvestor bootcamp sharing

8. Financial plan has to be a LONG document

Who the hell says financial plan has to be a long and lengthy document. You won’t believe, but there are many software’s which financial planners use and all these software’s are in the race of 30-50-100 page financial plans.

Even a lot of financial planners believe that longer the document they give to client, they can showcase the work done by them and all the “analysis” they did. They feel that can justify their “work-hours” put in the financial planning exercise and help them to charge more fees.

But, almost all the investors we have talked to till date are not looking for a lengthy plan; All they want to learn is how to get in control of their financial life. Lengthy documents just confuse the clients. After looking at number of pie charts and heavy graphs and complex calculation tables in the financial plan, investors get more frustrated.

Why not give a financial plan that the investor can own and implement, why not give a one page plan  or may be something which is short and sweet. A short plan, which only has something which really matters to clients and makes it easy for them to understand their own financial lives.

We once gave an option to one of our clients – “Do you want a 15 page financial plan or a 1 page plan?”. He said, “I will be thankful if you can give me a 1 page plan”. And we gave him a one page plan, which was sufficient for him to take important actions in his financial life.

Conclusion

Now, you have a whole new perspective on how to look at financial planning and you also know how not to look at financial planning. Share what is it that stops you from getting a financial plan, what stopped you till date? Is it about your lack of understanding, lack of belief in financial planning or something else?

Do share your views on today’s article, I have not been very active on writing articles but from now on I will see that I share my views from time to time.

– This article is written by Nandish Desai

4 benefits of a group health insurance cover from employer !

It is common nowadays for salaried employees working in big companies to have a group health insurance cover from their employer. Some firms provide health cover to the employee, his spouse, and his children while the more generous ones also extend this cover to the employee’s parents.

group Health Insurance Advantages

In this article, I want to help you understand in some detail, what exactly constitutes group health cover. I will also cover the benefits of group health insurance policies that are not available in the individual health insurance plans one buys directly from health insurance companies.

What is group health insurance ?

The concept of group health insurance is very simple. When you buy health cover policies covering big groups of 50 people or even 500 people, it is termed as group health cover. Normally big organizations would take these policies for their staff.

The good thing about these group health insurance policies is that it can be tailored to the requirement of the proposer (one who is taking the policy) and can be offered as a benefit to their employees. Insurance companies benefit from this arrangement, as they get massive premiums from a single source (imagine how much premium Infosys would pay yearly). The big ticket-size also allows insurance companies to offer more benefits at a relatively lower premium value (How Insurance works – The full business model).

I recommend that everyone have his or her own health insurance apart from employer health cover, but that’s a different topic of discussion. The focus of this article is to highlight some of the good points about group cover and how you can benefit if you fall under such a scheme.

4 advantages of group health cover from employer

1. No Medical Checkup’s

The best part of group health insurance cover from an employer is that there is no requirement of undergoing a medical checkup – both for self and family members. Everyone is covered automatically in the group cover from Day 1 and you can completely avoid the hassle of a medical checkup.

2. Maternity cover from Day 1

This is going to bring smiles on lots of faces! From Day 1, maternity expenses are covered under group medical cover in almost all companies. So if you join a company and if you are part of the health cover benefit scheme, you will get maternity benefits immediately; unlike the individual health cover which has timing limitations.

3. No Waiting period Concept

Another great feature of group health insurance is that there is no concept of waiting period for any illness. Even pre-existing illness are covered under group cover. So if your parents are suffering from some illness such as diabetes or heart ailments, it gets covered from Day 1. This is never the case with individual health cover that you buy on your own. Again, this exception is only made possible through the dynamics of group health cover that I explained earlier.

4. More Cost Effective because its a group cover

Like I mentioned in the beginning or this article, because of economies of scale, the premium per insured person is very low for group health insurance policies. Hence, if your employer is providing you a group health cover, it makes sense to apply for it, even if you have to pay the premiums yourself.

How to fit in Group Health Cover in your overall Health Insurance Portfolio ?

So now the question is how should a group health insurance cover find a place in your overall health insurance portfolio? While we have seen advantages of group health insurance, in the same way there are lots of disadvantage of the group health insurance. The first importance should be given to having your own individual health insurance policy so that the complete control is in your hands, not your employer. While group health insurance from employer is great, but look at it as secondary option, not primary for the reasons I have mentioned in this article.

is employer health cover sufficient

So, make sure you do not depend 100% on employers health insurance because it can stop anytime, it will not be available for long term after your retirement.


Do you want to share any insight on this topic or your views?

5 must know rules before Opening PPF Account for minor child

PPF account is one of the most favorite investment product in India and every person wants to open a PPF account for minor child. However, there are lots of myths about the rules on opening PPF account for minor kids.

In this article, we will look at some of the important points you should know if you want to open a PPF account for your children. We will discuss about tax exemption, limit on the amount you can invest and PPF maturity rules. Here they are

UPDATE: The limit was 1 Lac when this article was written. Now it has increased to 1.5 Lacs.

rules ppf account for minor children

1. Who can open PPF account for minor Child ?

As per PPF rules, a guardian can open Public Provident Fund account for minor child, where guardian is

  • Either Father or Mother
  • Or incase of Parents are not alive, then any other guardian under the law can open PPF account for minor children, like Uncle, Aunt, Grandmother, Grandfather etc.
  • Incase a surviving parent is incapable of acting, then also some other guardian (as mentioned above) can open PPF minor account

2. How much can I invest in PPF account of Minor Child ?

There is a very big confusion around this topic. The most common question is – “Can I invest more than 1 lac in PPF account ?”

As per my understanding and all the readings I did on this topic, I came to know that One can invest maximum of Rs 1 lac in all the combined PPF (Public Provident Fund) account a person has which is self , and for minor children. Example – Imagine there is a Father (F) and Mother (M) and there are two minor children – C1 and C2 . Now follow scenario’s are possible

  • Father (F) can open PPF account for himself, C1, and C2
  • Wife (W) can open PPF account for herself, C1 and C2
  • Father can open PPF account for himself and C1 (or C2) , Wife can open PPF account for herself and C2 (or C1)

Here are these 3 scenarios possible

PPF account for minor

3. Can I deposit more than 1 lac in PPF account even if I don’t need income tax exemption ?

This is one question which really needs clarity, because a lot of people open PPF accounts for minor children and invest Rs 1 lac in all the Public Provident Fund accounts (Here are articles on opening PPF account with ICICI Bank and with SBI Bank).

You don’t get income tax exemption under 80C for more than total Rs 1 lac, which is fine for many people, but are you eligible to get benefits on more than 1 lac invested or not ?

As per PPF rules, you are just not allowed to invest more than Rs 1 lac in your own PPF account or any other PPF account where you are guardian. So if you have 2 kids and you have opened PPF account in their names, you might be thinking that you can invest 1 lac in your own PPF and 1 lac in each kid PPF account so that you can enjoy tax free maturity income later for your kids PPF account .

But I dont think its allowed, because as per PPF rules, the 1 lac limit is for an individual , not on per account basis .

But I have been investing more than 1 lac each year, already from many years !

I know, a lot of investors who have been investing more than 1 lac in PPF each year. Due to technological challenges, it might be possible that no one stopped you from doing it, but in future if govt comes to know that you have been avoiding the rules, you might not get any interest on the excess amount, so you might get back only the principal amount at the time of maturity.

A lot of Bank staff are also not clear on these rules , here is an incident which was shared by one of our readers 

Today I met manager of the branch of bank (State Bank of India) where I have all these three accounts. I narrated the whole scenario. He does not see any problem with the situation.

I am really confused as to continue this mode of financial plan or to change it in the light of your clarification regarding the total ppf investment limit.

4. Do I need to declare about my personal PPF accounts at the time of opening minor PPF ?

A person can not have more than 1 PPF account on self name, but they can have it as a guardian for his children , but you need to declare about all your PPF (Public Provident Fund) account as self and for other children at the time of opening a new PPF account with other kids.

Because when you fill up the PPF opening form, there is a declaration you need to give about it , here is a snapshot of how it looks like

self declaration ppf form

Which means that legally you need to declare about your other PPF accounts , if you don’t do so, you are breaking the law and if in future its detected that you have been doing what is not allowed, all the money you have deposited in PPF account in excess to the limit allowed will just be returned to you without any interest, and that might be a big blow to your overall planning.

So, a small change you can do in your overall planning is that, you can ask your spouse to open PPF account as guardian for the child, this way, one husband can avail upto 1 lac benefit and wife can also avail upto 1 lac benefit.

5. What happens when the minor kid becomes a major ?

Case 1 : If PPF account matures before the child attains 18 yrs

In this case the guardian can either withdraw the money from PPF or extend it for another 5 yrs block . In this case, the money withdrawn will be treated as guardian income and now when this money is invested somewhere else and any interest income is earned (learn how PPF interest is calculated), then it will be treated as guardian income only.

So imagine PPF (Public Provident Fund) account is matured and the kid is still minor (assume you opened the PPF when he/she was 1 yr old) and you get Rs 10 lacs from PPF account, now when you invest this 10 lacs into FD , you get Rs 1 lac as interest in a year, this interest income will be treated as your income (guardian income) and will be added into income and taxed accordingly.

Case 2 : If PPF account matures after the child attains 18 yrs (become’s major) –

In this case, the account will then be operated by the child (who has become major) and there will be no guardian. The child will then take his/her own independent decision.

In this case, because the PPF account has matured after the child has attained maturity age, all the maturity amount will be income of the child itself, Now any interest income earned on this amount in future will be kid income.

Conclusion

PPF account for minor children is a good idea if you want to build a long term corpus for their education or other requirement. However if you are already exhausting your own limit for PPF (Public Provident Fund), then it might not be that useful because their a limit on the investment amount.

You need to see how you want to divide the amount between your own and your kid and whom do you want to make guardian, yourself or your spouse ?

Can you share about your case ? Do you have PPF account for your minor child ?

6 reasons for which you can withdraw from your EPF – like Buying House, Medical treatment, Marriage etc !

Yes, you read it right ! . Most of the people do not know that they can withdrawal partially from their EPF account even when they are in the job for some specific and important reasons in life like buying house, marriage and paying for education fees.

Today I am going to share with you this very hidden and not so known information about EPF partial withdrawal. EPF is an important part of most of the salaried individuals, but there is lack of awareness of how it can help you at times when you are pressed for money in life.

If you have worked for several years like 5-20 yrs already, you have accumulated a good amount in your EPF (Employee Provident Fund), but most of the people feel that its locked in and they will only be able to get it only at the time of retirement or will be able to withdraw/transfer it when they leave their job.

EPF withdrawal for house purchase, marriage or medical emergencies

6 situations when you can withdraw money from EPF account while you are working

Here are those 6 major milestones in life or reasons for which you can take out the money from EPF account

  • For Marriage Purpose of Self, Sibling and Children
  • For Education of Self + Children
  • Purchase/Construction of House or Flat
  • Repayment of Existing Home Loan
  • Repairs/Alteration of Existing House
  • For Medical Treatment

Different rules for different situations

Para 68 of Employee Provident Fund Act 1952, defines how much you can withdraw, under which condition, after how many years of service and finally how many number of times. But before you move forward, its important to understand two important terms – which are “wages” and “years in service”.

You should know these two terms because how much you can withdraw for some reason has some restrictions and defined like this  – “You can withdraw maximum 36 times your monthly wages, only after 5 yrs of service”. So you will get confused on the terms like wages and years of service .

Most of the people confuse “wages” with the monthly take home salary or gross salary and do not understand how to calculate “yrs of service” because they have changed their jobs and keep moving from one company to another and have not transferred their old EPF account to new one.

So lets understand these two critical points

What is the meaning of “Wages” ?

Wages means Basic Salary + DA (if any) . So if you are earning Rs 80,000 per month take home,. but your Basic Salary + DA is only Rs.25,000 per month and rest 55,000 is other components, then for calculation purpose – “wages” will be Rs.25,000 only and not Rs.80,000 which is generally confused with.

What is the meaning of “X yrs of Completed Service” ?

How old is EPF account is the sum total of how many years you have worked. Do not confuse it with how long are you are employed in current job.

Because Employee Provident Fund (EPF) is a centralized pension system, if you ave worked for 3 yrs , 4 yrs and 2 yrs in 3 different companies, then your EPF account would be considered as 9 yrs old, provided you have transferred your old EPF accounts to the current one.

So in this example which I just gave, even if your current job is 2 yrs old, if you have transferred your old EPF to your current one, your “yrs of service” will be 9 yrs, and then you will be eligible for many benefits which we are going to talk in this article.

Incase you have not transferred your old EPF account to current EPF account, then in that case you will be at loss, because there is no data of your past employment in the current EPF account and you suddenly might not be eligible for various withdrawal benefits, because many of them require atleast 5 or 7 yrs of service.

So the first step you should do is transfer your old EPF to your new EPF account. Incase you have been facing issues while transferring your EPF account, file a RTI now and get it done !

What is Form 31 ?

Form 31 is the main form which one has to fill and submit to employer inorder to withdraw money for various important situations mentioned above. Along with form 31, you also need to provide specific documents depending on the case. You can either ask for Form 31 from your employer or download Form 31 from EPF website.

Fill this form and submit it to your employer who will then verify it and process it. Note that you should not send it directly to EPFO office, because it has to go through your employer only. Below is the form 31 attached if you want to have a look at it.

How will you receive the money from EPFO ?

When you fill up the form 31, you need to you need to fill up your bank details and also give a cancelled cheque and once your employer and EPFO verifies it and process it, you get the money through NEFT or RTGS in your bank account.

Incase the amount is less then Rs 2,000, you also have option to get it via money order.

6 situations when you can withdraw from your EPF

Below are those 6 important reasons for which you can withdraw from your EPF , now I am going to explain each of them in detail. Here they are –

Reason #1 – Marriage for self, children and siblings

You can withdraw from your EPF account for the occasion of marriage if you have completed 7 yrs of service. The interesting part is, you can avail this facility 3 times in life (during your service) and the maximum amount you can withdraw can not be more than 50% of the “Employee share” in EPF account.

You should be clear that even Employer contributes to your EPF account and that is not considered for this withdrawal. So even if your EPF account total balance is Rs 10 lacs, that whole amount is not considered for calculation purpose, only your own contribution and interest on that amount is used for calculation purpose.

This is applicable for the marriage of

  • Self
  • Son or Daughter
  • Brother or Sister

So for an example, lets say you have been working for 10 yrs and your sister’s marriage is coming up, you can withdraw money from your EPF account for this purpose.

You will need to provide the full address of venue, marriage date in form 31, and also attach some proof of wedding like Marriage invitation or the bonafide certificate of the fees payable and give it to your employer for verification and processing.

Reason #2 – For Education of Self + Children

You can also withdraw for education expenses for self and children. This is valid only for post matriculation educational expenses. By post-matriculation, it means after 10th standard .

So if you are admitting your child to any college or university for graduation or post graduation or any other professional course, you can withdraw from your EPF account. But this can be availed only after 7 yrs of service and the maximum amount you can withdraw is 50% of your own contribution.

This can be used for maximum 3 times in your lifetime, but this 3 times also includes the “marriage” as the reason. So the point is , for Marriage or Education purpose, you can withdraw for maximum 3 times in total.

Reason #3 – Purchase/Construction of House/Land

If you are planning to buy or construct a house OR purchase a land, you are eligible to withdraw some limited money from your EPF account once in lifetime. Here are some of the rules which you need to satisfy

  • The house/land should be on your name or your spouse name or jointly in the name of you and your spouse (no other combination is allowed)
  • You should have completed 5 yrs of service.
  • If you are purchasing land, the maximum permissible amount is 24 times monthly wages.
  • If you are purchasing or constructing a house/flat , then the permissible limit is 36 times monthly wages (including the acquisition of land also)

So for example –

If you are buying a flat and your salary per month is Rs.80,000 , but your basic salary + DA (wages) is only Rs.25,000 per month, then for calculation sake, your wages is Rs 25,000. So as per rule, you can withdraw upto 36 times your monthly wage, which is 36 x Rs.25,000 = Rs.9 lacs from your EPF account.

If you do not have that much money, then you will get less than 9 lacs. This is not a small amount if you think about it. When you take the home, there are so many costs involved and one is so hard pressed for money that time, Even few lacs is a big enough help.

The property in question should be free from any dispute or emcumbrances to avail this facility (here are 20+ terms you should know about real estate). Also the property should be registered and a proof of registration must be given to get this facility.

Reason #4 – Repayment of Existing Home Loan

This one is surely going to move a lot of you readers I know :). If you have a home loan, you can even withdraw some part of your EPF money to prepay your current home loan, but for that you need to have 10 yrs of service. However you can avail this only once in your lifetime, and this one time limit is clubbed with the last reason (3rd) above.

So one can either withdraw money from EPF account for purchase/construction of house or repayment of house loan, not both !

The property must be in the name of self, spouse or jointly registered with spouse.

A lot of people have a joint home loan with father, mother, siblings – but in those cases, you wont get this benefit. The amount you can withdraw will be 36 times of your monthly wages.

The money you will get under this clause, can be taken from self contribution and employer contribution in EPF. You will need to provide the proof for house agreement, sanction of house loan and some other documents as asked by the EPFO office.

Also the money will be issued directly to the lender bank, not to you (incase you thought you can trick the EPFO and enjoy the money for some other purpose). Next, you can use the money from your self + employer contribution.

Reason #5 – Repairs/Alteration of Existing House

At times, when your house is little old (after many years), there comes a time when you want to make some alterations and changes in current house and it burns your pocket. You might want to do some construction work, or lets say change your home tiles, or add a new room in existing house.

In all these cases, you can use EPF money for this purpose. However there are few rules

  • The maximum money you can take is 12 times your monthly wages
  • The house should be more than 5 yrs old after construction completion date.
  • You should have completed 10 yrs of service
  • You can avail this facility only once
  • The house should be in the name of self, spouse or jointly with spouse

Note that this money can only come out of your own contribution, not employer’s contribution

Reason #6 – For Medical Treatments

If you have health insurance, then well and good, but if you don’t have it and if you are hospitalized or have to undergo some major surgery, you might have to shell out a lot of money, but your EPF account can be of some help to you partially.

You can withdraw money from your EPF (Provident Fund) for a medical treatment for self or anyone is family in following 3 situations (any one, not all)

(a) The hospitalization is for more than 1 month (for any reason), or
(b) major surgical operation in a hospital, or
(c) if one is suffering from T.B., leprosy, paralysis, cancer, mental derangement or heart ailment and having been granted leave by his employer for treatment of the said illness.

The best part is that you can withdraw the money anytime in your service.

There is no requirement that, you must have completed X number of years in service. Even if you have been in service for just 1 yr or 2 yrs, you can still withdraw money for medical treatment – But at the same time, the maximum money you can take is limited to 6 months wages, which is not a very big amount, but still atleast you get some help and this option is there.

This benefit can be taken anytime you want and for any number of times during your life time. So in a way, your EPF will come to your rescue in times of need, at least partially if not fully!.

But, there are few documents you will have to produce and give along with Form 31 and those are

  • A certificate from your employer which states that the Employees’ State Insurance Scheme facility and benefits thereunder are not actually available to the member or the member produces a certificate from the Employees’ State Insurance Corporation to the effect that he has ceased to be eligible for cash benefits under the Employees’ State Insurance Scheme
  • A certificate from eligible doctor stating the fact that hospitalization of one month is required or there is a requirement of a major surgical operation or certifying that one is suffering from the mentioned illness – i.e T.B, leprosy, paralysis, cancer, mental derangement or heart ailment.

All the rules mentioned in a single chart

So that was all the rules I wanted to tell you, I also want to give you a single chart which has all the above points at one place.

epf withdrawal chart for house purchase, marriage or education expenses

An example of someone with 10+ yrs of experience

To give you a more clear picture, here is a simple example which will help you understand how much a person is eligible to withdraw in money terms. I have assumed that a person has completed 10 yrs of service and his wages per month is Rs 20,000 and his current EPF balance is Rs.10 lacs.

epf withdrawal example house purchase

Conclusion

Your EPF account is primarily for your long term wealth creation, Do not use it only because the money is available through that because its a place where your money gets accumulated each month without your intervention.

However in case of crisis situations and when you are not able to arrange for money from anywhere, its a good place to chip in and withdraw the money.

Let me know if you want to share any new information or have any doubts. I would be happy to answer them incase I know more

4 kind of exclusions in your health insurance policy which are NOT covered

When health insurance claims are rejected, it disappoints the customer more than anything else. Its a disappointing moment for the policy holder, when his trust is lost in company and he starts feeling that he was a fool to buy the health insurance policy at the first place and waste his premium, because companies are just fraud, who wants to loot the customers, by giving silly reasons for not settling the claim.

They feel companies are coming up with unreasonable reasons to reject their claims. This situation is a big blow to customer financially, because now they have to bear all the expenses from their own pocket. This is exactly what happens with many customers who have no idea of what their health insurance policy covers and does not cover.

What does a Health Insurance Policy does not Cover ?

In almost all the cases where claims are rejected and customers are disappointed, its seen that it happens because companies reject claims based on the policy document rules and what is covered or not covered into the policy, however the customer disappointment is always there, because there was a lack of understanding of what is covered and what is not covered. There various clauses like waiting period concept or exlusion of pre-existing illness, which customers do not try to understand fully and see health insurance policy as something which will just pay their bills in any medical case. However thats not true.

In this article I want to make you aware about the 4 major clauses in almost all the health insurance policies which will help you understand how exclusions work in case of health insurance policies and when you will not be paid. This will help you and companies both to make sure you are on the same page.

What is not covered in health insurance policies

Exclusion #1 – Permanent Exclusions

Permanent exclusions are listed category of treatments, which are never covered in health insurance policy for whole life. They are excluded permanently from the ambit of the health insurance scope. These permanent exclusions are clearly mentioned in the policy document of the health insurance product under section “Permanent Exclusions”.

Even before buying the policy, you can look at the PDF document of the policy which must be there on the health insurance company website. Almost all the companies have the same list of illnesses listed under this section, however you should anyways look at it.

Here is a sample list of some of the permanent exclusion taken from Religare Care Health Insurance policy(not the full list)

  • Any condition directly or indirectly caused or associated with any sexually transmitted disease
  • AIDS
  • Any Treatment arising from or traceable to pregnancy, miscarriage, maternity, abortion or complications of any of these.
  • Any Dental treatment or surgery unless necessitated due to an injury
  • Charges incurred in connection with cost of spectacles or contact lenses, routine eye and ear examinations
  • Any treatment related to sleep disorder etc
  • Treatment of mental illness, stress , psychiatric or psychological disorders
  • Any Treatment/surgery for change of sex or gender reassignments including any complication arising out of these treatments
  • All preventive care, vaccination, including inoculation and immunizations
  • Non Allopathic treatments
  • Any Out Patient Treatment
  • Treatment received outside India (unless its part of the policy)
  • Act of self destruction or self inflicted injury , attempted suicide
  • Any Hospitalization primarily for investigation or diagnosis purpose
  • Cosmetic and aesthetic treatments
  • plus, there are many others – which you should read in policy document

Here is an exact snapshot from Bharti Axa Health Insurance page

what is not covered in health insurance policies bharti axa

Exclusion #2 – Waiting Period Concept for selected illness

Each Health insurance policy has the concept of “Waiting Period” for a selected list of illnesses, which means that for first few years(which can be anywhere between 2-3 years) will not be covered under health insurance and only after that period they will be covered. So if waiting period is 2 years in some policy, and you take the policy in year 2014, the illness covered under waiting list will be covered only after 2 yrs are over.

This is one thing which customers do not pay attention to while taking the policy and if they get hospitalized due to some illness which is not covered under waiting period, their claim is rejected and then they feel cheated and complain about the company. Here is a real life case on our forum

Here is the list of some of the illness and diseases which are part of waiting period in most of the policies

  • Arthritis , Osteoarthritis , Osteoporosis , Spinal Disorders, Joint replacement surgery
  • ENT Disorders & surgeries, Deviation, Sinusitis and related disorders
  • Cataract
  • Dilation and Curettage
  • Piles, Gastric Ulcers
  • All types of Hernia , Hydrocele
  • Internal tumors, Skin Tumors , cysts
  • Kidney Stone , Gall Blader Stone

Some policies might have the specific waiting period for senior citizens, like in case of Family First policy by Max Bupa, there are few illness which are under 2 years waiting period for senior citizens, but not for young customers.

Specific Waiting period for senior citizens

Exclusion #3 – Pre-Exisitng Illness

Another exclusion is “Pre-existing illness” in all the policy documents of all the health insurance policies. Pre-existing illness are those illnesses which are already detected for the patient. Most of the companies do not cover these pre-existing illness for starting 2-4 yrs (exact time varies from one company to another). So if someone is suffering from some respiratory illness already, then any treatments or hospitalizations which occurs due to respiratory problems will not be covered for first few yrs (the exact tenure depends on company). This is to prevent situations where a person is detected for some disease and he takes the health insurance so that he is covered for the hospitalization, this is simply not allowed and does not make any business logic. So thats the reason its said that one should take health insurance as soon as possible so that those initial few years are passed and then you are covered for wide range of illness.

Pre-existing illness in case of Senior Citizens

In case of senior citizens, pre-existing illness are excluded for rest of the life in most of the policies, because anyways there is higher probability of senior citizens getting hospitalized due to their existing illness. So if someone has undergone bypass surgery and they are senior citizen, any heart related treatments will not be covered for all life. It will be permanently excluded from the policy. Thats one big reason why I keep on saying that you should take your parents health insurance before they turn 60 yrs. There are some companies like Oriental Insurance, which does not even require medical tests for persons upto age of 60 yrs, just the declarations given in the health insurance form is enough.

Exclusion #4 – First 30-90 days waiting period

Almost all the health insurance companies do not give cover for any medical treatment for the first 30-90 days of taking the policy, except the medical expenses which result from injury (like accident). For example Religare Care have a initial 30 days waiting period, however Max Bupa Family First policy has a 90 day waiting period

Conclusion

Health Insurance is a preventive financial product, not a reactive financial product. You take health insurance to make sure that you are covered from future problems, not to deal with current medical issues. So when you are healthy, you should go for medical policy, so that you are covered for any long term medical issues. Most of the people start the procedure of buying health insurance when some illness is detected, and that’s when health insurance policy will not help you much. Instead of having wrong expectations by assuming things, better analyse and research the health insurance policy properly and deeply by reading the policy document.

Let me know if you have any experiences on this or want to share something ?

Penalty Charges on failed transactions due to insufficient balance at other banks ATM

Imagine this situation. You are in urgent need of cash and looking around for your bank ATM, but you are not able to locate one, but you can see other banks ATM and then finally you give up and want to withdraw the cash from other banks ATM knowing that its FREE to withdraw the money from other banks ATM (at least 3 times a month)

have you ever been charged penalty on failed transactions due to insufficient balance at other banks ATM?

Then, You go to other bank ATM and withdraw Rs 5,000, but you see the message on screen “Insufficient Balance, transaction Failed” only to realize that in a hurry, you have punched in an extra ZERO and have tried to withdraw Rs 50,000. You then ignore this minor mistake thinking that it means nothing and then finally you withdraw Rs 5,000 and leave the ATM happily!.

However, By the end of the month – when you are looking at your bank statement, you are in horror to see that there is some Rs 28 debited from your account as ATM decline charges and you are like – “What the hell is that”? You talk to customer care and come to know that there are some “ATM decline Charges due to insufficient balance”, you are not happy as you were not aware of it and customer care just has one answer – “It’s as per RBI guidelines”!

Penalty charges due to Insufficient Funds

Almost all the banks charge you a penalty charge if your transaction at other banks ATM is declined due to insufficient fund. So if you have an ICICI bank account and you are withdrawing money from HDFC or SBI ATM and if the transaction fails due to insufficient balance or fewer banknotes inside the ATM, the transaction will fail and you will be charged!

Here is a real life incident which happened with my Father, when back home, he tried to take out some money from SBI bank ATM (the account is with ICICI bank) and he was not that sure of the exact balance and he tried to take out the money 3 times in a row. We only realized about this charge when I was looking at the bank statement at the end of the month.

 

2 07/02/2011  ATM DECLINE CHG/08-JAN-11/2713 DR INR 28.00
3 07/02/2011  ATM DECLINE CHG/08-JAN-11/2713 DR INR 28.00
4 07/02/2011  ATM DECLINE CHG/08-JAN-11/2713 DR INR 28.00

How ATM decline charges are calculated?

Decline charges are the base charges + service tax! Each bank is free to define the penalty charge. So in the case of ICICI Bank (and other several banks), the penalty charges are Rs 25 per failed transaction. So when you add service tax, the final figure is Rs 28 (approx). Here are some of the bank penalty charges I found out on their websites.

ATM decline charges for insufficient balance

Is it for real that people pay penalty when there is insufficient cash in the ATM?

If it’s customer mistake, one can still understand the penalty charges, but what do you say about charges, when your transaction is declined because of the bank mistake ! , like if notes in the ATM are not sufficient? What if you are trying to withdraw Rs 5,000 but there are just Rs 100 notes in the ATM (Rs 500 are over) and the transaction failed (maximum 40 notes at a time is allowed) and you are charged for the failed transaction in other bank ATM ?

Here is one incident !

Dear Sir, I the undersigned wish to inform you that i am having saving account no. ******84712 with State Bank of India, Vadgaon Branch, Pune. When I was having balance of Rs.5106.19 (9th January 2014) in my account I went to SBI ATM at laxmi road, Pune but due to technical reason it was not in working position. So I went to opposite Bank of India, Laxmi Road ATM. When I tried to withdraw Rs.3300/- from that ATM it declined saying insufficient balance when I checked with security guard there he informed me that there are only 500 rs. notes available so you withdraw in multiples of 500 only.

So I withdrew Rs.3500/- (ATM 40091 BOI LAXMI ROAD II PUNE MHIN). When i checked today my account it is showing TO TRANSFER INSUF BAL ATM DECLINE CHARGE – ****** Transfer to ******14906 Rs.17/-. Will you please explain me the reason behind this charges.

Here is one more experience you should read where the bank had charged a customer for no mistake!

My friend once had a bad experience with SBI credit card. During some emergency, using his SBI Credit card he wanted to withdraw Rs.10000 from an SBI ATM. He entered Rs.10000 but the ATM refused to dispense that amount and gave a message that it could dispense only 40 notes at a time. Unfortunately only Rs.100 were present in the ATM (This point was not mentioned any where). So, he had to use his card thrice to get the required amount (Rs. 4000 X 2 times and Rs.2000 X 1). After he got his credit card statement, we were surprised to see that he was charged, cash withdrawal charges – 3 times (Rs.250 X 3 = Rs.750). Had the ATM been filled with Rs.1000 notes, the transaction would have been only one and my friend could have saved Rs.500. Is this ethical to charge the customers for such things? (Source)

Have you been charged for Failed ATM transaction due to insufficient balance at some other bank ATM ? Do you feel its justified?

Bank Locker Closed by bank & Struggle of claiming the locker contents back – A real Life Experience !

A lot of investors hold a locker facility in their bank, where they keep their valuables, jewelry and important documents. You must also be having at least 1 locker and must be rest assured that your locker will be safe and will not be touched, or looked upon by anyone else. However things can go wrong!

You might be operating your bank locker once in a while or many times in a year and in that case, everything will go well. However many people do not operate their bank lockers frequently and at times their lockers are closed for years and years. And they also forget to pay the fees for lockers, because you never realise that the time has elapsed and its time to renew the bank locker. Thats a big risk !

bank locker closed down

I will share with you some rules on how a bank can close down the inoperative bank locker when fees is not paid and even if the rent is paid to them and and we will also see a real life experience of one of the readers where his bank locker was closed down and handed over to someone else just because it was inactive for many years and then he struggled a lot to claim back his locker contents. (Read more on bank lockers safety, FD requirement, and more in this article)

Can Bank close your Bank Locker due to inactivity, even if rent is paid ?

Seems like the answer is YES.

Bank Lockes are divided into various risk categories by banks after they complete your KYC. Banks can assign you lockers which are either into “low risk” , “medium risk” or “high risk” category depending on what job/business you do, what is your age, what is your past relationship with bank, where do you live! and several other factors.

You then have to pay 3 yrs locker rental + breaking charges as security deposit at the time of getting the locker (No, FD for a big amount is not mandatory).

Now if you are into higher risk category, as per the RBI guidelines, if a bank locker is not operated for more than 1 yr, the bank can close your bank locker and take it custody back and give it to some other customer. Read the important part of the circular below 

(ii) Where the lockers have remained unoperated for more than three years for medium risk category or one year for a higher risk category, banks should immediately contact the locker-hirer and advise him to either operate the locker or surrender it. This exercise should be carried out even if the locker hirer is paying the rent regularly. Further, banks should ask the locker hirer to give in writing, the reasons why he / she did not operate the locker.

In case the locker-hirer has some genuine reasons as in the case of NRIs or persons who are out of town due to a transferable job etc., banks may allow the locker hirer to continue with the locker. In case the locker-hirer does not respond nor operate the locker, banks should consider opening the lockers after giving due notice to him. In this context, banks should incorporate a clause in the locker agreement that in case the locker remains unoperated for more than one year, the bank would have the right to cancel the allotment of the locker and open the locker, even if the rent is paid regularly.

How will it work if you do not operate your bank locker for a long time?

Step 1: If your bank locker is inactive for a very long time, and if bank wants to close it down, then first, bank will try to contact you and ask for the reason why you have not operated your bank locker for such a long time. Which tells you that you should make sure your phone number, email id and contact address is updated in bank records. If you have been moving from one house to another, you might miss the bank communication if your address is not updated.

Step 2 : You can either start operating the locker, or just miss out on communication part and then bank will close your locker and keep its valuables/belongings with them properly sealed in a bundle (dont worry, nothing will happen to it). Bank will also try to contact you again that your locker has been closed and the belongings are with them.

Step 3 : Once you realise in future that your bank locker has been seized ! , at that time, you can contact the bank, if needed file a RTI to bank asking for all the reasons and details and then take bank your valuables.

How Eshwar Claimed bank his Inoperative Bank Locker contents back from Bank

One of our reader Eshwar Molugu was shocked to find out that his bank locker was closed down and had been assigned to some other customer because of non-payment of fees and inactivity. This all happened because Eshwar visited after many years to operate his bank locker. This is when the whole problem started, he was not getting all the information properly and once he came to know that his locker belongings are there with bank, He really had a tough time to claim bank his locker contents. Here is his real story shared in his own words

My father have a locker in Canara Bank and it had been maintained from more than 10 years. We had paid the locker fee till 2009 and have all the bills related to it. After that we didn’t touch the locker till now Dec 30 2013. We didnt paid the locker fee from 2010.  But surprisingly when we went to bank today(6th Jan 2014)to enquire about the locker , Bank people said that the locker was given to some other person from 2010 onwards. And we didn’t get any notice asking us to pay the fee of locker.

My question is

  • How can they give our locker to others without prior information to us ?
  • If at all they want to give to others they should have asked/send some notice to pay the fee right ?
  • Ok… assume they have given the locker to others but what about the things inside it. Will they take all the properties inside it? Is that correct?

When I read this on comments section, I replied Eshwar telling him that incase he has not got any communication from bank on closure of his bank locker, then its service deficiency part from bank and to get any kind of information and to speed up the process, he should clearly tell the bank that he will reach to banking ombudsman and even file a RTI to find out all the information if there is no cooperation from bank side, Eswar then went bank and did all those things and then things started moving ..

Here is what Eshwar updated some days later.

When i had raised my voice with respective words like Banking Ombudsman and RTI, the boll got rolling. They took almost a week after i spoke with them and got me with information

1) The locker is safely archived in a bundle.
2) We paid the locker breaking charges and annual fee with respect to banking rules to retrieve the items back.

Now, As i had read about the RBI Instructions regarding the breaking of lock, Here are the points i found

1) After due notice to Locker hirer clearly confirming in the notice that , they are going to break open the locker in case of no response from the locker hirer with in specified time as mentioned in notice.

2) Generally the Lockers will be break opened on presentation of two witness officers of the bank and the valuables in the lockers will be packed in a sealed cover and stapled and will be stored separably .

3) Once after arrival of locker hirer/owner of valuables its duty of the bank to hand over the valuables to owner after under going all due diligence.

So with respective to the above guidelines proposed by RBI, I questioned Bank Manager, Genearl Manager and AGM, asking them to produce me the list of items they noted down while breaking the locker. And they came with an answers like “May be the item list would be inside the packaged bundle.”

So my question is

1) “If the item list is inside the packaged bundle then i don’t have any problem, But if the bundle have no item list inside it how should i handle the situation ?”

2) I was thinking the item list is mandatory when the locker is broken. Does my thinking makes sense or does the bank doesn’t write one(item list) as such.

Currently, they are ready to give the package bundle anytime but i am waiting for your reply on the item list
Can you please respond and suggest me ASAP as i am waiting for your reply to relieve my locker.

And some days Later !

We got our bundle with all the items in it and also there was a list explaining about every item. We were completely satisfied after getting the bundle and didn’t fight further for not sending notice.

If i wouldn’t have posted my problem in jagoinvestor website I wouldn’t have known about Ombudsmen party at all. Thanks once again

What you can learn from this episode is that you should keep on operating your locker from time to time, Even if there is nothing to add/remove from your bank locker, you can casually just visit the bank locker and open and close it, just to check if everything is fine.

What learnings are you going to take from the above real life case ?